Conversations with 'Urban Naxals', Ep#6 Sanjay Rajoura: 'Those who try to get justice for people are branded as Urban Naxals'

Are you an  Urban Naxal ? How many Urban Naxals do you know? Would you be able to spot an Urban Naxal in the wild? Do you even know what an  Urban Naxal is ? We don’t, so we thought we’d track down a few who’ve been tagged so, sit down with them and ask each of them a bunch of fundamental questions about who they were. These podcasts are a result of our “field studies”. The following conversation is with Sanjay Rajoura who is a stand up artist and actor and part of the collective Aisi Taisi Democracy.

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Transcript:

Shubhra Dixit: Iss episode mein hum baat kar rahe hai Sanjay Rajoura se, jo ek stand-up comic hain aur lekhak hain.

Hi Sanjay, thank you hum se baat karne ke liye. Toh shuruat karte hain.  

Aapko kya lagta hai, Urban Naxal ka matlab kya hai?    

Sanjay Rajoura: Ek mulk just tabhi hota hai jab woh apne sabse gareeb aur sabse kamzor tabke ko bhi insaaf dila sake. Jo uss insaaf ki baat kar raha hai, usse inko problem ho rahi hai, usko yeh bolte hai ki yeh anti-national hai ya Urban Naxal hai. 

Ab log is tarah se jhoot phela rahe hain, and there are people who are buying it. Toh main yeh keh raha hun, kya logon ki koi zimedaari nahi hai? Kya saari zimedaari… hum saara ilzaam hum state pe, sarkar pe, establishment pe toh nahi laga sakte na. Hum log hain, jo iss fareb ko khareed rahe hain. 

Shubhra Dixit: Vivek Agnihotri ne apni kitab mein likha hai, ki jo Naxal ideology hai woh har jagah penetrate kar chuki hai, universities mein, aur schools mein, feminist movements ya queer movements mein, iske baare mein aapka kuch khayal hai? Agar aapne Vivek Agnihotri ki kitaab padhi ho ya film dekhi ho, ya unka jo general stand raha hai public mein…      

Sanjay Rajoura: Dekhiye, main padhta hun, films bhi dekhta hum. Par main bakwas nahi dekhta aur bakwas nahi padhta, toh mujhe uss aadmi ki baat karne ki zaroorat bhi nahi hai.

Kaunse feminist movement ke baare mein Vivek Agnihotri baat kar rahe hain jo corrupt hai? I don’t know a single feminist movement jo ideologically corrupt hai. Ab yeh pata nahi kaunse unversities ki baat kar raha hai aur kaunse feminism ki baat kar raha hai. 

Bhai, aap likhye, main padhoon yeh zaroori toh nahi hai… usko koi naye zamaane ki Bible, Quran ya Ramayan toh nahi maan sakte na.

Shubhra Dixit: Kya aap keh sakte hain aap Naxal sympathiser hain?  

Sanjay Rajoura: Main aapko pehle hi bol chuka hun na, nainsaafi ke khilaaf bolna har insaan ka farz hai, agar justice nahi mil raha hai kahin pe, aur sabse kamzor aadmi ko nahi mil raha hai, toh uske khilaaf bolna, aawaz uthana har insaan ka farz hai. Ab woh sab Naxal hain kya? 

Aur jo yeh Naxals ki baat bhi kar rahe hain, Maoists ki baat bhi kar rahe hain — aap kitne Maoists se miley hain apni zindagi mein? Kitno se aapne baat ki hai jaake? Har cheez mein expert bane ja rahe hain bina koi experience ke. 

Shubhra Dixit: Jo 28th August ko raids hue hain, aur arrests hue hain, uski timing ke baare mein aapka kya khayal hai?    

Sanjay Rajoura: Yeh toh aap dekhiye na, jo authoritarian governments hoti hai woh aise hi function karti hain. Unko pata hai agar kahin par dhyaan divert karna hai toh koi aur kaand kar do. Aur doosra unka agenda yeh bhi hai ki logo ko dara ke rakho. Yeh toh shukar manao khaali arrest hi kiya hai, nahi toh aajkal toh log goliyaan bhi chala rahe hain ek doosre ke upar, jinse woh agree nahi kar rahe. 

Theek hai na, toh yeh toh state tactics hain. Jo authoritarian state hota hai uski tactics yahi hoti hain. 

Shubhra Dixit: Arnab Goswami ne apne ek debate mein kaha tha ki jo Maoists hai woh Islamic State jaise hain, aur Jaish-e-Mohammed jaise hain. Kya aap kahenge kuch difference hai Naxals aur Islamic State mein?  

Sanjay Rajoura: Arnab Goswami ke pea-sized brain pe mujhe na thoda sa taras aata hai. 

Violence ko na aap categorise nahi kar sakte, ke yeh terrorists ki violence hai, yeh Islamic terrorists ki violence hai, yeh Sanathan Dharma ki violence hai ya Maoists ki violence hai ya activists ki violence hai. Violence toh violence hai. Aur humko toh bachpan se yeh sikhaya gaya hai… Aur humne toh apne popular culture mein dekha hai ki violence ko kaise normalise kiya gaya hai. 

Kya state ka violence, violence nahi hai? Jab woh apne hi logon ke upar, hathiyaar ke saath, unko justice dene ke bajaye unpe goliyaan chalata hai, alag alag Acts ke through, toh kya woh violence nahi hai? Toh aap kaise categorise kar sakte hain? 

Dekho Arnab Goswami type log na bohot bade maukaparast hain. Mauka milega toh jahan unki roti sikegi wahan sekenge, jaise maine pehle bhi bola. Ya phir itne bewakoof hain, ki inko smajah nahi aa raha ki kis tarah ki behuda baatein kar raha hai, aur apni credibility kharab kar raha hai. Aur teesra yeh hoga, ki generally believe hi yahi karta hai. Ab teeno mein se koi bhi reason nahi hai inki baat sunne ka. 

Shubhra Dixit: Jin logon ke ghar pe raid padi thi, wahan se Marxist aur Communist literature seize kara gaya. Toh kya yeh ab crime ho gaya hai? Ki Marxist literature nahi padhna chahiye iss desh mein?  

Sanjay Rajoura: Woh toh ho hi gaya hai na. Dekho na iss country mein kya ho raha hai. The entire debate around JNU was, that people like Kanahiya and Umar Khalid, yeh padhte jaa rahe hain. Itna kyun padh rahe ho tum log? 

Ek media conclave mein, ek koi padha likha… there was this young boy, woh khada hoke Kanahiya se kehta hai ki tum kab tak padhte rahoge? Iss age mein koi IIT ka ladka tax bharne lagta hai, tum padhte hi ja rahe ho… toh padhna likhna toh crime ho gaya hai. Jo padhta hai usko kehte hain ki woh tax payers ke money pe burden hai. Lekin yeh ladka yeh bhool gaya hai ki jo IIT mein padh ke aaya hai, usko padhane wala professor PhD karke aaya hoga kahin se. 

Agar aap ke ghar ke kitaabein hain toh aap already problematic ho. Kitaabein rakhne ka matlab hai aap padhte ho, alag alag kisam ke thoughts ko padhte ho, uske baad apna kuch conclusion draw karte ho, uske baad interpret karte ho jo aapke aas pass, aapki society mein, aapki country mein ho raha hai…

Shubhra Dixit: Yeh jo raids hue the, aur jo arrests hue the, usse bhima koregaon violence se relate kiya gaya tha. Usme Prime Minister ko assassinate karne ka plot kahan se aa gaya?  

Sanjay Rajoura: Nahi, Prime Minister toh yeh abhi bane hain na, chaar saal pehle, usse pehle yeh Gujarat ke chief minister the, wahan bhi inko assassinate karne ke plot ho rahe the. Yeh jo Ishrat Jahan encounter hua tha, woh kya tha? Ki yeh log Lashkar-e-Taiba ke hain, aur yeh chief minister Modi ko assassinate karne ka plan bana rahe hain.

Aap dekhiye, ek ladki Kerala mein — Hadiya naam tha uska shayad, haan. Ek ladki jo apni marzi se shaadi kar rahi thi, usko investigate karne kaun, NIA paunhch gaya. Aur jo desh ke Pradhan Mantri ko assassinate karne ki conspiracy hai, usko Pune police investigate kar rahi hai. 

Shubhra Dixit: Abhi jo activists arrest hue hain UAPA ke tahat, 2007 mein jab UPA government thi, tab bhi inme se kuch same log arrest hue the, aur unhe bhi UAPA ke under charge kiya gaya tha. Kya aapko lagta hai kuch difference hai Congress aur BJP ke istmaal mein UAPA ke?  

Sanjay Rajoura: Dekhiye, aap ek baat samajh lein ki jo State ka nature hota hai na, woh ek hi hota hai: usko dissent pasand nahi hai. Toh yeh jo saare laws jinka fayda BJP utha rahi hai, woh banaye kisne hain? Woh banaye toh Congress ne hi hain na?  

Aisa koi kaam, in terms of being wrong , BJP nahi kar rahi hai jo Congress ne pehle nahi kiya hai. Lekin aaj yeh hai, ab itna strong campaign hai humme anti-national ghoshit karne ke liye, humme Urban Naxal ghoshit karne ke liye. Pehle Manmohan Singh ke upar din mein hazaar jokes bante the, aaj ke Prime Minister pe bana ke dekhe koi, darte hain log. Yeh farak hai. 

Dekho, do tarah ka state hota hai. Ek jisko pata hai woh exploitative hai, toh woh safety walls bana bana ke… woh smart hota hai, woh safety walls thode bana ke rakhta hai taaki log khush hote rahe ki kuch toh ho raa hain, par kaam toh woh utna hi corrupt kar raha hota hai. 

Doosra state hai, jo abhi hai, jo mahabewakoof hote hain. Woh toh apne cards saare khol ke rakh raha hai, yeh farak hai Congress aur BJP mein

Shubhra Dixit: Yeh bhi Arnab Goswami ke baarein mein hai, par sirf unke baare mein nahi hai kyunki Twitter pe bhi is tarah ke reaction aate hai. Ki yeh jo activists hain aur human rights lawyers hain, woh clubs mein jaate hai literature festivals mein jaate hai, champagne peete hai aur cheese khaate hain. Toh yeh jo class wala jo angle aa jaata hai, uske baarein mein aapka kya kehna hai?

Sanjay Rajoura: Dekhiye, pehle toh Arnab se shuru karte hai. Woh jo mehnge kapde pehen ke studio mein roz bethta hai, apne aap ko thinker claim karta hai, woh kya hai? Woh itne mehnge mehnge suit pehen ke, daily wahan morality ke bhashan deta hai, desh bhakti ke bhaashan deta hai. Toh usko toh koi haq hi nahi hai kisi ko bolne ka ki wine and cheese khaate hain, aur champagne peete hain aur yeh kapde pehente hai. Apne kapde dekh, bhai. Agar ek raat ke Arnab ke suit ka value ho jaaye, toh kitne gaanv ke pet bhar jayenge. 

Rahi baat class ki, iss baat mein koi dohraaye nahi hai ki, whatever is happening around the world right now, liberals will have to acknowledge that it’s their faliure. Yeh failure hai. Agar aap dekhein toh liberals ke beech mein bhi ek class hai, duniya bhar mein, sirf hindusataan mein nahi hai. 

Jo itna elitist samjhte hain apne aap ko, woh iss language mein discourse karte hain, ki jo insaan uski jaisi privilidged education nahi leke aaya, reputed college se nahi hai, usko outsider bana ke rakhte hai. Yeh keh ke, ki hum tumhare haq ki baat karenge, tum rehne do, tumhe bolna nahi aata. Yeh vaise hi hai jaise Bhramin ne Sanskrit ko banaya tha, Shudra ko dur rakhne ke liye. Ki tumhe nahi pata, yeh language humme samajh aati hai. Toh uss discourse mein there was an outsider and there was an insider,theek hai…

Aur ab, people who were treated like outsiders, ab unko lag raha hai unka time aa gaya hai. Woh badla le rahe hain. Unka koi bhi discourse hai woh logical ya rational nahi hai. It’s like a revenge they are taking on liberals. 

Shubhra Dixit: Okay. Mere bas itne hi sawal the. Thank you. Thank you so much.  

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Co-produced and edited by  Sonali Jain .