Exclusive | ‘Whether you want to shake hands or not, let’s remain good ambassadors of the game’: Anjum Chopra

The 2025 edition of the ICC Women’s ODI World Cup is currently being played in India and Sri Lanka. India began their campaign, looking for their maiden title, with a win against the Lankans, their co-hosts. While the history books will reflect a 59-run (DLS method) win for Team India, the result could have very easily been very different, had it not been for some tenacious individual performances with both bat and ball, with all-rounder Deepti Sharma emerging as the standout player .

It wasn’t a fully convincing performance and the Indian team management will know that there are a few areas they need to look at and a few chinks in the armour to fix before their next assignment – a clash against Pakistan in Colombo on Sunday, October 5. One of the things that they would want to ideally look at is the possibility of including a sixth bowling option. According to former India captain, Anjum Chopra, this is one thing that is almost non-negotiable, especially on Indian pitches and against top teams like Australia.

Also Read | India’s World Cup opener shows the tightrope they walk: Long batting saves, thin bowling may haunt later

The Indian women’s cricket team have never lost an ODI match against Pakistan, and are proud owners of a pristine 11-0 Head-to-Head record. Pakistan also have had a disastrous start to the World Cup, losing to Bangladesh by 7 wickets, after being bowled out for a paltry 129. They will be itching to get back to winning ways.

In this exclusive interview, Chopra, who played 12 Tests, 127 ODIs and 18 T20is for India talks about why Deepti is not considered to be a ‘star’ player, despite being ‘the biggest match-winner in the Indian dressing room’, the upcoming clash vs Pakistan in the ICC Women’s ODI World Cup, a sixth bowling option for Team India, Smriti Mandhana’s forgettable outing in the tournament opener, the no-handshake saga and much more.

This is part one of an exclusive interview with Anjum Chopra:

Firstpost: In the opening match of the World Cup this time in Guwahati, India played Sri Lanka and won by 59 runs (DLM). Now, before I delve into more specifics, I wanted to ask you about Deepti Sharma, who was the Player of the Match for her run-a-ball 53-run knock and three wickets. A great all-round display. Now, Deepti is someone you had called the biggest match winner in the Indian dressing room currently in a previous interview with me. This is just another reminder of exactly what she brings to the table, right?

Anjum Chopra: Yes, it is. As a player if she is able to contribute to an India win – first it was with one skill, now she is contributing with both skills (batting and bowling) and in fact with fielding also – it’s very nice. Individually, if you identify a cricketer who has such abilities to contribute to wins for the country, it’s a great feeling. So, yes – Deepti, I felt, was very much instrumental (to India’s win vs Sri Lanka in the World Cup opener), along with others of course. I have always maintained that she is the biggest match winner in the Indian team.

FP: Have you ever had any long conversations with Deepti? What have you discussed? Any advice or tips that you might have given her…

AC: We do speak, but I steer clear from giving cricketing advice. I won’t say that we have never spoken about cricket, because I have known her (Deepti) for so many years now – from the time she made her debut for India in 2014 (India vs South Africa ODI in Bengaluru in November 2014). But whenever we meet – whether it’s when we are travelling together or are in the same room, we only have light-hearted conversations. So, I steer clear of discussing cricket, because I am also someone who doesn’t like to discuss cricket 24x7. I don’t say this to her anymore, but I have said it to Deepti earlier that – ‘you are a class batter, but you are not focusing enough on it.’ She has said that – ‘I don’t get enough chances to showcase my (batting) skills.’ And that is something she is absolutely right about.

When she came into the Indian team or when she played First-Class cricket, she was either an opener or a one-down batter. But for India (now), you have to obviously adjust (in terms of batting order). Over the years I have nagged her about it quite a bit, saying – ‘Come on, Deepti. You are a much better batter than a number 7 or 8.’ And even if you have to bat at number 8, why can’t you change (your style)? If you can drive the ball, you can also hit the ball. So, why are you wasting your time, why are you not showcasing your (batting) skills to the world, because I know that you can be a great contributor with the bat, apart from your bowling and fielding.’

I have said this to her over the years, especially when T20 started and even before WPL started. I was very happy when a couple of years back she was named the Most Valuable Player of the tournament (WPL 2024) – she was the highest run getter (295 runs) and second-highest wicket-taker (10 wickets) for the UP Warriorz.

We always have light-hearted conversations, mostly, never heavy-duty stuff, because she understands my one-liners and jokes and it’s reciprocal (laughs). We both also share a love of tea. But, like I have said earlier – because of her personality, she (Deepti) can go unnoticed. If this kind of a performance (vs SL in the tournament opener) came from one of the ‘top’ batters of the Indian team, everybody would have been going gung-ho about it. There would be reels running, articles on the player etc. But a match-winning performance like this from Deepti Sharma has not even made anyone run an individual photograph of hers in any of the dailies. This also depends on the personality of players and whether they are ‘personalities’ or not – it’s either there or not there.

FP: It’s fair to say that Deepti will be a key player for India in this home World Cup. When you look at her as a batter, now that she has been playing for over a decade for India, what do you see?

AC: When I see her, I see someone who has improved, in terms of scoring runs. During any tournament – a bilateral or a World Cup, you get to gauge where the player is compared to where she or he was. Over the last two and half years, or so, I have seen the growth in Deepti Sharma as a batter. When you come into an Indian team, you come in on the back of your performances in domestic cricket and then you start a different kind of journey. She used to open, but the opening slot was not her’s (in the Indian team). She had to find her own space as a consistent member (of the team) and of course her bowling abilities helped her do that also.

Now, with so much cricket across formats, the continuous challenge for cricketers is to cater to the changing demands of the game. One day you are playing T20s, the next day you are playing a 50-over match and you have to play accordingly. I think (as a bowler) she is varying her pace, which is very skillful and is something that she has worked on. If you see the kind of batter that she was two and a half years back to where she is now – she is not only scoring runs, she has the calmness and confidence to understand what the game situation is and play accordingly. And that goes for any player.

In the initial years, a player comes and hits the ball, get out for 20-30 runs, then it is about scoring runs and remaining not out, it’s about ensuring that you take your team to wins. These things you learn slowly and steadily. You practice and then you come out in a match to check if you can get to the place, you set out to reach. How you are feeling physically, mentally, how are you reading the game, skill-wise? A pressure situation doesn’t give you time., You have to adapt to those situations very quickly. Your fitness and your skill have to align with game situations and every game scenario is going to be different, the pressure will be different, the expectation will be different.

Now, the expectations from Deepti Sharma are the same (as from other players), but the credit that is given to her is not the same. In The Hundred in England, in one match, she hit the winning runs – a six down long on and her team, London Spirit won. She was at one time, behind run-a-ball (batting strike rate) and the team needed runs, but she was able to take her team to a win. That would have given her a lot of confidence. She must have prepared for that - to go and hit shots.

Earlier she would drive the ball, then she began sweeping and now she tries to score runs all around the park – and that comes with confidence and practice. A lot of players deploy the sweep, because they are not confident of using their feet against spinners. So, every game situation is different, every preparation will be different. Will you be able to take a risk? Do you want to take a risk? Do you have the ability to take a risk? All those factors come into play when you walk in as a cricketer, to either bat or bowl.

I feel Deepti has brought herself to a level where she can understand what is required according to the game scenario and how she can get there. She is not someone like a Harman (Harmanpreet Kaur) who can stand and hit a six at will. She (Deepti) has to run between the wickets, but she is not the quickest – she will take smaller strides, she will take time to reach. She also needs to save her energy to hit the (big) shots. She is not the tallest of cricketers. So, she has to take into account all those facets and then deliver.

Which is why I say that if you look at where she was about two and a half, three years back, to where she is now, there is a lot of growth. Just look at the dynamism that she (now) brings as a cricketer and that too with a docile personality, not one that is in your face. That is why she doesn’t get enough credit. Anybody else would have already become a leader in this group.

FP: Now, let’s talk about the first match in greater detail. It was not surprising to see Sri Lanka elect to bowl first after winning the toss, but do you think a team like Australia for instance might approach a match against India in their home conditions differently and bat first, if they win the toss to try and bat India out of the contest? And is that something Team India will be factoring in in to their strategies? Also, what would Team India’s strategy be, you think, going ahead, when they win the toss?

AC: There are a couple of things that will go into the decision-making, for this. For Australia, they always look to bat first, unless it’s a cloudy morning and they are playing a Test match in England. They primarily look to bat first and bat big. Not that they are averse to chasing, but they like to bat first. The game against India is in Visakhapatnam, which again has a very good batting track. Another factor that comes into play is – what is the bowling combination that India is looking to go ahead with in the tournament?

In Guwahati (vs SL) there was no dew, but there was rain. Also, Sri Lanka just didn’t attack the Indian bowlers at all. For Sri Lanka to elect to bowl – they feel that they are a better chasing team. My feeling, looking at Chamari Atapattu as captain and as a leader is that she feels that they are a better chasing team or maybe she is a better batter in a chase. Also, there was rain in Guwahati, so even the Indian team possibly would have maybe looked to have bowled first.

If India is playing Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or even Pakistan, I think India would prefer having a bat first, rather than bowling first, because there will be good batting pitches. But, if the Indian team feels that their spinners need to come into play and they need to bowl in slightly better bowling conditions, and not give them the challenge of bowling in the second half, with some possible dew, that might influence their decision.

FP: Apart from Deepti’s performance in that game, what was the standout feature of Team India’s approach and execution for you? What were the things that stood out for you - both positive and negative…

AC: What I liked was the belief that the middle order had. Even after your vice-captain is dismissed, without making an impression and in the manner in which she gets out, there was no panic that we saw from Pratika Rawal (37 off 59 balls vs SL) and Harleen Deol (48 off 64 balls vs SL). Both players played to their abilities and according to the occasion, which was a very heartening thing to see. A 25 and a 27-year-old, batting for India, with great maturity and calmness.

Then also, the way Amanjot Kaur played (57 off 56 balls vs SL) in what was her ODI World Cup debut, coming out of injury, having missed so many months of active cricket. She came out and played with complete positivity. There were catches that the opposition dropped to give her reprieves, but the shots that she played showed that as a cricketer, she had prepared for occasions like these. India’s middle order and lower middle order will be crucial for them. Individually, between Harleen, Pratika, Amanjot, Deepti, Sneh Rana – how they batted – that was a big positive for me, in the batting department.

As for the bowling, the Sri Lankan batting didn’t push the Indian bowling, at all. Had they done that and if the situation (in the chase) was a run-a-ball, it could have been a difficult situation for India. There was no competition between the bat and the ball in the second innings at all. It was one-sided. As for the negatives – even if Smriti got out (early), the middle order, after the rain break, between Jemimah, Richa and Harman didn’t assess the situation and the changing nature of the surface quick enough. They felt the pitch was still very good for stroke-play, whereas, it had changed, because it had been under the covers for more than an hour and it slowed down a bit. That is why the spinners were getting purchase and assistance as soon as the game resumed.

Having said that, it’s easy for us to say this, because our job is to analyse. That is also where the team management comes in – how they feed the information that ‘just watch a few deliveries, before you go for the big shots.’ And they played into the hands of the Sri Lankan spinners. So, I felt that tactically, Team India could have been more aware and smarter. I am hopeful that we will see improvement in the games to come. Also, the fact that India went in with a rather inexperienced bowling line-up. Amanjot Kaur, coming out of injury and playing her first match (in an ODI World Cup), (Shree) Charani playing her first World Cup game, Kranti Goud playing her first World Cup game.

I have no problem with a youngster walking in and leading the bowling attack, but with five bowlers and a lot of inexperience – I thought that was a chance that the Indian team took. Inexperienced bowling attack and only five bowlers. That was their game plan and if the result had not gone India’s way, we would have been searching for answers right from the beginning of this World Cup.

FP: Not just because this is a home World Cup, but in the larger context of Indian women’s cricket as well - the batting ‘stars’ like Smriti and Harman need to come good, right? You had mentioned earlier how Smriti doesn’t do well traditionally in World Cups. Against Sri Lanka she managed to score 8, Harman got 21. Early days of course, but with a clash against Pakistan coming up, these two players in particular need to get the big runs, you would say?

AC: I have always felt that every player wants to start a tournament on a good note. For a player who is coming into the tournament with such good form, you know that the pace that you will get (at the ongoing World Cup) from an Australian Darcie Brown is not what you will get from an Achini Kulasuriya of the Sri Lankan team. The ball is not going to really come on to the bat, because the bowlers will not offer you that kind of pace, there will be more spin. My point is that you prepare accordingly. You know what (Udeshika) Prabodhani is going to offer you and even if you have played out a maiden over, it doesn’t matter.

No matter what you have done in previous matches, you always start from zero in every innings – that is something that is drilled into our systems from a very young age. Making a mistake is fine, to err is human. More often than not, we start World Cups with a clash against either Sri Lanka or Pakistan. So, you have to find a way to take a step back and decide – ‘how can I put myself in a better situation, mentally?’ You won’t forget how to score runs, but you would want to put yourself in a good space. The first match happened on 30th of September, then you have to wait till the 5th of October, for your next outing and the desired result. So, you have waited five long days. And that eagerness, that anxiety – whether you like it or not, it will be there at the back of your mind, because you are a stroke-player, you are a performer, you want to score runs. You have tasted success and you want it again.

So, how do you put yourself in a better scenario and try to be error-free? Even if you play 15 deliveries, without scoring, it doesn’t matter. At the end of the day, you might have a strike rate of 150 and nobody will even remember those first 15 deliveries. That is one. The second thing is that I feel that it is every player’s job to deliver the goods because you have been picked ahead of many others to do exactly that. If you keep putting yourself in the same scenario, the same situation, which you have done over the past few tournaments, then there is a question that you need to ask yourself. Is there something that is holding you back? We hope that the answer is no. But the way you get out, the way in which you play in a certain situation – how well she prepared against an off-spinner, against an Australian bowling attack, how good she was in the three matches of the (three-match ODI) bilateral series (vs Australia in September, in which Smriti was the highest run-getter with 300 runs in three innings ).

I myself had said that ‘this is Smriti 2.0’. But then suddenly you go back to what was happening earlier. She (Smriti) has worked very hard and I am sure she will come out of this, but you don’t want to have those tension-filled evenings or nights when you are by yourself and you have the thought – ‘I wish I had started well, (then) I would have been in a much better space.’

FP: At the end of the day, what every player wants to do is contribute to their team’s win. Regardless of what their personal approach to the sport might be, when you are playing a team sport, nothing is sweeter than seeing your team win….

AC: Absolutely, absolutely. We saw what happened with Jemimah Rodrigues – first ball, bowled, in a World Cup. How angry she would have been. It’s not difficult to understand that she would have been upset with herself. We have all been in that situation, where we have thought – ‘what can I do to release my anger?’. But you can’t (do that). You just have to wait. You have waited such a long time to play a World Cup game, then you were unfit, then you regained fitness and came back and then first ball duck.

You then have to again to back and wait for the innings to finish to come back on the field and then five more days to go out and score you first runs in a 50-over World Cup. The anger is justified. As a match-winner you don’t want to miss out on any opportunity. And that is why World Cups become so important, because they are momentous. They come once in four years, you get just one opportunity against one opposition, in the league games and you want to make it count. You don’t know what’s going to happen in the next four years. That is why tournaments like these carry greater value.

FP: Talking about the clash vs Pakistan this coming Sunday, which will be played at a neutral venue – Colombo. First clash between these two teams since the 2022 World Cup, India have a 11-0 Head-to-Head record against Pakistan in Women’s ODIs. Do you see this upcoming clash also going the same way when you look at the two current teams and assess the players on each side, along with the conditions we are likely to see in Colombo?

AC: The numbers are in India’s favour, but since it’s a World Cup contest, I would never take (the opposition) lightly. Also, a contest against Pakistan, I would never take lightly. A contest in neutral conditions, against a team which has shown healthy improvement in the last year or so – I would never take that contest lightly. And also, looking at the Indian team and how they played their first match, I would not take this contest lightly. So, there are various reasons to not take a clash against Pakistan lightly. At all. They recently beat South Africa, even if it was in their own backyard. They have been scoring runs in excess of 280, 290. You need one or two good performances to see a team through or to create panic. Why would India want to get into a place where they are in a panic situation?

Pakistan played a match in Colombo and they know the conditions ( Pakistan lost to Bangladesh by 7 wickets on Oct 2 in Colombo). Then when they play their next match at that venue, they will be more aware of the conditions than India. Team India will have to travel and they will get to train maybe just one day. Pakistan will also throw a lot of spin against India, because they know that the Indians are not the best players of spin bowling. We saw that recently against Sri Lanka also. Also, if it’s a slow, turning track, then you can’t expect it to be a 300+ kind of pitch. The ball is not going to come on to the bat. There is no reason to take a World Cup game lightly, especially against Pakistan.

FP: I have to ask you about the no-handshake saga that is playing out currently. After the men’s team, the BCCI has, according to news reports, asked the women’s team to also not shake hands with the Pakistani players at this World Cup. Now, over the years, despite the political situation and the fractured relationship between the two countries, the players on the field have been cordial with each other, often been great friends also. What is your take on where things stand right now, because there is no going back from this, right? On-field bonhomie between the two nations is officially over. Your take on what we are seeing play out…

AC: Sport has always steered clear of everything else. We play a sport to try and bring smiles on people’s faces, even in times of adversity. When Covid happened, there were still cricket matches being played and shown on TV. I remember going to Dubai and being quarantined and in a bio-bubble, with no interaction with the outside world. Cricket was being played to entertain people, at a time when things were so difficult for mankind. What I have always seen sport to be is – recreational. Of course, we play it with all our heart and soul and passion, because we want to win, but at the end of the day, the aim is to entertain people and make them smile, irrespective of whatever is going on (away from the playing field).

I don’t know why the situation has become what it has become, why it has escalated to this level. We remember what happened earlier this year when lives were lost. When we are talking about sport – we play an opposition, irrespective of what the colour of the uniform of the opposition is. The passion doesn’t change (depending on who you are playing). I am not aware of any directive being issued. I have not read it and I have not been told about it. I feel that sport is supposed to stay clear of anything which is outside the boundaries of the stadium. Nobody is happy in turbulent times, regardless of which side of the border you are on. If you can remain cordial, very good. If you can’t, don’t cause any harm. Whether you want to shake hands or not, whether you want to remain cordial or not, let’s remain good ambassadors of the game. Even in difficult situations, there could be decent, humane ways of conducting yourself. I feel that individually and also collectively, teams can adhere to that.

FP: For the match against Pakistan, would you like to see any changes to the playing XI? Or is this the strongest XI, you feel?

AC: I feel that there should be six bowling options. But in the same breath, I also understand that it will not be easy to get that sixth bowling option in this line-up. I am happy that India have the luxury of having two specialist all-rounders in Amanjot Kaur and Deepti Sharma. And now, with Sneh Rana contributing with the bat as well, she has created that extra bit of depth in the batting, which is great.

But you would also like to have a little bit of variety in your bowling attack. Not have a one-dimensional spin attack. You can’t go into a 50-over match having only five bowlers and no sixth bowling option. Harman is not bowling, which is not helpful. There is nobody else in that top order who can bowl and that too is not helpful. If you pick a bowler from the bench – between Renuka (Singh), Arundhati Reddy, there is nobody who can bat. Radha (Yadav) can bat a bit, but you can’t replace Charani, with the kind of form that she has shown. I wouldn’t want to do that.

So, it’s a very difficult scenario. But it is also a dangerous scenario, according to me, to have just five bowlers. I am ready to sacrifice one batter for another bowler in this line-up. Even though it might reduce the batting strength, overall, I am ready to take that gamble, rather than go with a five-bowler option. The pitches the matches are being played on are not surfaces where a five-bowler combination will succeed every time.

When they get to Colombo and if they feel a five-bowler combination is conducive, which I think is what they will do against Pakistan, that’s fine. But when they return from Colombo (back to India) and they reach Visakhapatnam, they better be sure, because against a team like Australia, a five-bowler strategy is questionable.