‘From when I was at Manchester City as a player, to where they are now – it’s chalk and cheese', says former player Seagraves

One of the biggest talking points in football these days is the hearing that began this Monday ( 16 September), with the English Premier League on one side and one of their most successful clubs ever, Manchester City on the other. It has been tagged as being “sports’ trial of the century”.

City, who have won six of the last seven Premier League titles, including four on the trot from the 2020-21 to the 2023-24 season, have been charged, by the EPL, with as many as 115 counts of alleged breach of the Premier League’s financial and fair-play rules between 2009 and 2018. After a four-year investigation, the club was charged in February 2023 and an independent commission was handed the responsibility of the hearing.

According to the Premier League, City failed to provide “accurate financial information that gives a true and fair view of the club’s financial position”. Firmly under the microscope is City’s revenue sources, including major sponsorship income.

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In other words, City are accused of ‘cheating’ by the very league that they have been dominating for a while now. Remember the club’s ownership changed hands in August 2008, with a takeover by the Abu Dhabi United Group, which saw a massive injection of funds into a club that was, prior to this, in a financially dire position. City’s fortunes changed, with City winning their first League title since 1967-68, in the 2011-12 season.

Manchester City case | What are the Premier League champions accused of and what are the potential consequences?

Big name players were brought in and after Roberto Mancini and Manuel Pellegrini, Pep Guardiola was made the manager in 2016, under whom the club has enjoyed unprecedented success. But now, all of that is in danger of being permanently tarnished.

If City are found guilty of the more serious charges, they could be hit by a points deduction large enough to relegate them, with even expulsion from the Premier League being a possibility. The players’ and the manager’s futures would be up in the air and other clubs could even demand compensation. If City are found guilty, it would not only send shockwaves across the English footballing landscape, but shake up the whole of world club football.

On the other hand, if they are cleared of the charges, that would leave the Premier League rather red-faced. A lot of money of course has already been spent by both parties in legal fees.

According to former Manchester City player, Mark Seagraves, this hearing is in many ways also a test-case for clubs in other European leagues.

City’s stand has been that they are completely innocent and that they can back that up with a “comprehensive body of irrefutable evidence”.

The hearing process is an internal one and will be confidential. The media are not even aware of who is on the three-member independent commission. The members have been appointed by the independent Chair of the Premier League’s Judicial Panel.

The hearing, which is being held at London’s International Dispute Resolution Centre, is expected to last around 10 weeks, with a verdict likely to be announced before the end of the current 2024-25 season.

Mark Seagraves, who played 42 games for Manchester City between 1987 and 1990 as a defender, spoke exclusively to Firstpost about this and also about City’s incredible dominance, and if he feels it’s all because of their deep pockets.

Mark also talked about players like Ilkay Gundogan and Erling Haaland, who have been in the headlines of late, Manchester United and their current state and also about the possibility of Mo Salah leaving Liverpool and potentially heading to Saudi Arabia at the end of the current season, among other things.

Excerpts: 

Let’s talk about the Premier League. Last 7 seasons – Six times we have had the same champion, including 4 consecutive times – Manchester City. The only time they didn’t win in the last 7 seasons was when Liverpool won the title in the 2019-20 season. What according to you have been the major reasons for City’s incredible dominance, is it just because of their deep pockets?

Mark Seagraves: Unfortunately, it always goes back to money and finance in everything in football. The more money you have, the deeper pockets you have, the better quality of players you are going to get. With that you obviously (also) get the best coach around and fortunately or unfortunately (for others) that will win you trophies.

The only one (trophy) that eluded Manchester City (for a long time) was the UEFA Champions League, but obviously they have won that now (2022-23 season). It is a completely direct link to deep pockets unfortunately in football nowadays.

Let’s talk about this season in greater detail now. City began the season by beating Manchester United 7-6 on penalties after a 1-1 draw to win the FA Community Shield for the first time since 2019. With that again this season, the gauntlet was well and truly thrown down right there, right?

Mark Seagraves: Well, it has. If you look closely at the last few seasons, they (City) come strong in the second half of the season, but this time around they have won four games (unbeaten so far in the EPL). They have beaten Chelsea (2-0), Ipswich Town (4-1), West Ham (3-1) and Brentford (2-1). The thing about Manchester City is that defensively they are not as sound as I would like them to be, in terms of keeping clean sheets. They allow teams to score against them. But the counter-balance to that is that they have players who can score goals. If you look – they have got 11 goals in 4 games (so far this season) so, they are averaging almost 3 (goals) a game and they will probably average that right through the season, because they have players like (Erling) Haaland.

I mean Haaland has scored 9 of their 11 goals (so far in the EPL) this season, so he is on course to go and break all the records again. So, it’s not boring, but you know it’s Manchester City (and what to expect from them). It’s like when I used to go to school and play school games – if one team scored, we could always go and score again and again against them – same thing with Manchester City, say with Ipswich.

You see Ipswich scoring first and then all of a sudden, within six or seven minutes, Manchester City were 3-1 up. Now, I know that that had a lot to do with the Ipswich defending, but they (City) can do that. Not just to teams like Ipswich, but (to) the big names as well. They (City) have got that quality and it’s not just in one or two players, they have got it throughout the team, they have the same thing in the substitutes as well. It seems to cover most of the positions with quality players. Yes, it’s because of their deep pockets, because of the money that the owners have pumped in to the team, but they are really nice to watch as well. They play really good football.

What about the hearing which began this Monday (September 16), one that is being dubbed ‘the trial of the century’ – the Premier League vs Manchester City? No matter who wins this case, which is being heard by an independent commission, the ramifications could be immense. But would you say a scenario where the tribunal rules in favour of the Premier League, and finds City guilty of some of the 115 charges of financial irregularities that they face, could cause far more ripples across the English football landscape?

Mark Seagraves: Let me tell you – as much as I am a Manchester City ex-player and supporter, love the club, love the supporters, if they have done anything wrong then they should have the full-force of the legislation rained down on them. You can’t cheat – which is basically what they (City) are accused of – of breaking all of these rules (115 charges against City for financial irregularities). We have seen it with the lesser clubs – Nottingham Forest (deducted four points for breaching the Premier League’s Profit and Sustainability Rules (PSR) for the 2022-23 season), Everton (docked six points and then a further two points for breaching the Premier League’s profit and sustainability rules) – they have had point deductions.

They (Premier League) also have to do it to the big boys, if they (City) have cheated or have broken any law. And we are not talking about just one (charge) here, we are talking about over a hundred (115 charges to be exact) from when they had the big money coming into the club (ownership changed in 2008). For me, if found guilty, it tarnishes everything they have achieved and if they have broken the rules, the independent tribunal might have enough to punish Manchester City.

You said the trial is being called the ‘trial of the century’ – it’s like this has been going on for a century. We go back to the deep pockets again – the owners of Manchester City have had obviously the best lawyers around. It’s taken nearly 6-7-8 years now to get to this point. There have to be checks and balances. If 19 of the 20 teams are doing it (following the rules) and one isn’t, that’s an unfair advantage, so I do believe that if found guilty, they (City) should be punished. Now, what punishment (should it be?). We have seen in other leagues, especially in Scotland, where (Glasgow) Rangers were demoted (in 2012) to the bottom level (fourth tier) and they had to work their way up. Now, if the Premier League want to make a point and make an example out of someone, there is no one better than Manchester City right now.

Monetary (punishment) is not going to hurt them. And not point deductions. Send them down to (English football) League Two or League One (if they are found guilty), because then that sends a real message out. What you can’t do is make the lowest in the rankings, the scapegoat, because that is not going to work. If all of the other teams are adhering to the rules and regulations, then Manchester City should also. As I said, it’s not one, it’s a lot of problems that they (City) are facing and hopefully this independent commission will do the right thing.

No one wants this to be a nasty thing. They (commission) just need to see that the relevant authorities are using the rule-book in the right way and punish the ones that don’t. Unfortunately (if City is punished/relegated), it’s the Manchester City supporters who are going to feel hard done by it. But, at some point people have to take responsibility and if they have transgressed, they have to face punishment. And this is also a test case, not just for the EPL, but for a lot of the leagues across Europe. They are all trying to get their houses in order. FC Barcelona being one of them, where financially they have to adhere to all the rules. Them and Real Madrid have historically bought whoever they wanted, but now they are being made accountable and Manchester City could be one of them too.

A word now on the Manchester City manager, someone who many feel is the best in the business…

Mark Seagraves: Pep (Guardiola) has tried to change the dynamic of football everywhere he has gone and none more so than at Manchester City, with the likes of John Stones (being turned from a) centre-into a holding midfielder and so on and so forth. So, Guardiola has revolutionised the game in the Premier League, the team has and that’s the standard. They (City) are the bar that everybody else has to reach. When you look at Liverpool and Arsenal and Man United and Chelsea and others – they are all trying to emulate that and every year Manchester City seems to go further away from them, because of their deep pockets.

I know that it’s different now, with the legislation within the game that you can only spend so much, but over the years they could have gone and spent a billion dollars and it wouldn’t have even made a small dent in their bank balance. And what they (City) have also done, which is a bit scary, but great for Manchester City – they have got a very, very, very good youth set-up and if you look at the players who are coming through this academy – they (City) are now able to sell them to other Premier League teams for 50 million or 40 million or 30 million – and recoup a lot of the money that they are spending on the first team. From when I was at the club as a player, which was a long time ago to where they are now – it’s chalk and cheese.

Manchester City completed a deal to re-sign Ilkay Gundogan from Barcelona on a one-year deal, on a free-transfer. He made his first start vs Brentford this season, since returning to the Etihad. How significant is this for both the team and Gundogan himself, at this time? It was called a transfer masterstroke…

Mark Seagraves: It’s good for everyone isn’t it? It’s good For Gundogan (who was City captain in their treble winning season), it’s good for Manchester City. He knows Manchester City, Manchester City know him. Guardiola knows the quality that he (Gundogan) brings.

He has vast experience, he scores goals and he fits well into the system. If you have a Ferrari, which is the lobe of your life and you have to sell it and then you get it back, free of cost, you wouldn’t say ‘no’, would you? It’s one of the best bits of business I have seen in football.

Since we are talking about City, a word on Erling Haaland now – commentators and experts have run out of superlatives for this striker. Your take on what sets Haaland apart from other strikers of this generation…

Mark Seagraves: He (Haaland) is a fantastic finisher. He is learning the game. We saw him at (Borussia) Dortmund and he was rough and unready – and we are thinking – ‘ok, he has come up to this level – to the Bundesliga, scored lot’s of goals there’ and I am thinking – ‘ok, this is the next level (EPL)’ I knew that he had a lot of injuries towards the end of his tenure at the Bundesliga and I am thinking – ‘will his body be able to stand up to the rigours of the Premier League?’ Well, he’s had a couple of injuries here and there, but nothing too major. But, the one thing that he (Haaland) has done, and I will give all the credit to Guardiola for this – is he has become a better, all-round player, in terms of his hold-up play, his awareness, his runs.

But, having said all of that, he is (also) getting an awful lot of chances – from the players who are around him. We talk about Manchester City’s quality and their ability to go and get the best (players) – and they have got the best. The likes of (Phil) Foden in and around there. They have just sold (Julien) Alvarez – to sell a guy like that, with the knowledge that someone else will be coming in. I think what he (Haaland) has done, that sets him apart from the likes of Harry Kane and others is that he can get in behind the defenders, whereas Kane – a lot of it is in front of the play, he doesn’t have the pace to get in.

Haaland has got the pace, he has got the power. We saw the goals he scored against Ipswich (hat-trick) , cool as a cucumber, his finishing is brilliant. I just think this (City) is the ideal club for him. The next one will be probably, Real Madrid and he will score even more goals there. If you look at his ratio of chances to goal scoring and conversion – I don’t know what it is (45% big chance conversion in 2022-23 season, 71.43% this season – after the win vs Brentford) – but it must be quite high. And that’s the one thing that sets him apart. He’s on the road to 40 goals this season (scored 27 goals in the 2023-24 EPL season). He is a fantastic player.

It was also, in a sense, quite a coup that Manchester City pulled off when they signed Haaland from Borussia Dortmund, right? Quite a few clubs were sniffing around, but they managed to get his signature, at a time when he was a completely unknown quantity in Premier League football…

Mark Seagraves: A very shrewd bit of business by Manchester City (signed in 2022 after City triggered his 51.2 million pound release clause at Dortmund. City reportedly paid a total of 85.5 million pounds, including agent fees, signing bonus and other costs. Most experts feel going by how well he is doing at City, it was quite the bargain). And he has done it for them, year-in-year-out. I just like the way he is developing, he is aware of where he should be, where he could go and he is anticipating it and the defenders aren’t reacting – and that what sets him apart and his finishing, of course.

Also, his dad (Alfie Haaland) played for Manchester City and he knows just big a club Manchester City is. When you are in the football game and you are managing and you want players to come to your football club, all these things matter. It’s not just about football. It’s about where your wife wants to go shopping, where the best schools are for your children, I want to play where my dad played and obviously Manchester City are one of the biggest clubs in Europe now, anyway, so, financially it would be good for him (Haaland). So, a lot of these things aligned and Manchester City got him for little compared to what his stock is now.

A word on Manchester United now, Mark. We heard Cristiano Ronaldo recently say that the club needs to overhaul pretty much everything to go back to being the force they were in English football. Ronaldo of course doesn’t seem very happy with the kind of statements that Erik ten Hag has been making. United haven’t won the League title since the 2012-13 season. What is going wrong, you think?

Mark Seagraves: I have to laugh at players who come back and want to criticise managers and this, that and the other. I look at (Erik) ten Hag and I don’t know what else he can do. We are not talking about some group of young kids that he (ten Hag) has got. He has got World Cup level players in his team, with vast experience, who are earning huge amounts of money. You are not telling me that it’s ten Hag’s fault that (Marcus) Rashford is playing the way he is. That’s got everything to do with Rashford. Casemiro – are you telling me that’s ten Hag’s fault? Manchester United are 10th in the league (current standing) and it’s not just because of ten Hag.

Look at the managers they have had before this. They haven’t been able to do it (win the Premier League title). The ones before – a few of them have been world class managers. We have had (Louis) van Gaal (2014-2016), we have had (Jose) Mourinho (2016-2018). The new owners have come in and are trying to implement things. But ultimately, it’s what goes on, on the pitch.

Let me tell you, Manchester United – year-in-year-out are in the top two or three of money spent on signings. Every year. Antony (Matheus dos Santos) needs to have a look at himself, (Jadon) Sancho needs to have a look at himself. When you look at Sancho (on loan to Borussia Dortmund and then to Chelsea), when he is playing for Dortmund and he is playing out of his skin – of course you want a player like that in your football club. But when they do come and it doesn’t happen for them, that’s not the manager’s fault. That has everything to do with the player himself.

Despite everything that has been happening with United on the field, their brand remains huge, of course…

Mark Seagraves: The size of the club. Manchester United, whether the people think it or not, are the biggest club in world football (as of August 2024, United’s brand value was estimated at $1498 million). They are bigger than Real Madrid, they are bigger than Barcelona (Statistically, according to Forbes, Real Madrid is at No.1 spot of most valuable football clubs worth $6.6 billion and United are number two, worth $6.55 billion in 2024). It’s the biggest football club in the world and if you don’t get off to a good start at Manchester United, it’s very difficult to come back from that. The supporters want trophies, which they haven’t been getting, apart from the FA Cup (United beat City 2-1 in May this year).

The Premier League has eluded them for a long time (United haven’t won the EPL title since 2012-13). Also, they (the supporters) don’t just want the trophies, they want the trophies with the club playing really good football. You can only pull the players onto the pitch and say – ‘we are going to play this system, this is what I want you do when it breaks down, this is where I want you to be’ – if they are not prepared to take that on board (what can the manager do?). You are not playing 17, 18-year-olds.

I feel sorry, not just for ten Hag, but also for the next guy who comes in, because Rashford isn’t going to change, he won’t become a big superstar again, with a new manager coming in. I personally would get rid of a lot of players who are in there and start again, because it hasn’t worked for however long. And he is right, ten Hag. You look at his record – he has won two FA Cups in his tenure. He is probably better than a lot of managers before him, up until Sir Alex Ferguson.

So, what’s going on? I don’t know. But – always put the blame on the players, because ultimately you can train all week, you can do the shape, you can do the system you want to play, you can do your free-kicks, you can do your corners. You can do all of that, but if the players go out on a Saturday and don’t do it, then (even someone like) Guardiola would get the sack at Manchester United. Everything has to revolve around the players. I was an assistant manager as well and the manager who I was working with – I never said yes to anything he said.

I would always counter it with – ‘you think it might be better if we do it this way’. One day he told me – ‘you can actually say yes’ and I told him – ‘I don’t want to be a yes-man. I have my own opinion and I want to give that to you. You can take it or leave it’. (Erik) ten Hag can see the wood for the trees. He needs to have good people around him – give him some information that might make it better. But Manchester United are the biggest club in the world and with that comes all the media attention. Another thing I feel sorry for ten Hag for is that he has had to deal with a lot of off the field issues as well – with players’ personal lives and players’ professional lives and ultimately that will be the demise of ten Hag, but right now – who is going to be better than him? I have no idea who is going to be better than him, because the same problems and issues are going to be there (for whoever takes the job after ten Hag).

Say, Guardiola went (to United), do you really think that Rashford is going to be a better player, playing under him now? He had one season about two years ago when he scored about 35 goals and everyone went – ‘oh, wow! Brilliant.’ But, if you see him last season and this season going forward, it’s shocking to see. And this kid is on a lot of money. And that’s where the club maybe needs to have a rethink. I am not a Manchester United fan, but I don’t want them languishing in the lower reaches of the Premier League. I want them pushing Manchester City and pushing Liverpool.

Glad you brought up Liverpool. How big a blow will it be, you think, for them to lose Mo Salah at the end of this season? Going by everything, there seems to be a possibility of him moving to Saudi Arabia on a free transfer in 2025. Lots of clubs of course are reportedly interested in him…

 Mark Seagraves: It will be a big blow, because they will lose 30 goals a season, minimum. I would have sold him (Salah) this season and I would have got my 200 million or whatever it is and get other players in, because footballers are like cars – when you buy them in the showroom, you buy them for whatever cost it is and as soon as you go out of the showroom, it (value) depreciates. The same thing for footballers. He (Salah) is getting older, he is not getting any younger. I thought Liverpool would sell him this season, get the big dollars for him and be able to go out and get other players.

Squads come and go. If you look at Real Madrid and what they are doing at the moment, in terms of the players who have been there and the players they have got now – it’s a totally different way. But they are still very, very strong and solid. Salah has been brilliant for Liverpool, absolutely brilliant and the club has been brilliant for him. Now, he is 32 and it’s beneficial for him and his family to go to the Middle East and get his final payday. I do believe that if you keep too many players an extra year too much, it affects the squad in general as well.

If you see Liverpool – the way they are playing right now – it’s fantastic. (They are) defensively solid, they are a joy to watch. It (losing Salah) will be a loss. He (Salah) owes Liverpool nothing, he owes the supporters nothing. He’s given them so many good nights, so many good games. Liverpool supporters will bless him and let him go, they won’t hold any grudges towards him, because he has done great by Liverpool with his goal-scoring. It’s just the nature of the game now, isn’t it? Football is such a short tenure industry for footballers. It’s 10-15 years when you can make your money.

I know they earn a lot, anyway, but I don’t begrudge any of them. The only ones I do begrudge are – if you are 24 and in the prime of your life and you go to the Middle East. I don’t agree with that, but I agree with the likes of what Salah is doing, I agree with the likes of what Tony Kroos did. He (Kroos – former German international who played for Bayern Munich and Real Madrid) went out (retired after Germany’s exit at the Euro 2024 quarter-final, at the age of 34) at the very, very top. Not many players can do that.

So, it (Salah leaving) will be a blow, but there will be somebody else coming through – that’s the nature (of the game), isn’t it? Listen, (even) players like (Cristiano) Ronaldo and (Lionel) Messi – they are done, they are out of the way now. They are in the past. They are (like the) Maradonas, the Peles. Let’s look at the future now and who have we got who is going to take up the mantle and I think there’s enough around to be able to do that (take forward the legacy of the greats). I think (Phil) Foden (24-year-old English international and Manchester City midfielder) is going to be one of them, we talk about (Jude) Bellingham (21-year-old English international and Real Madrid midfielder). There’s lots of young players out there, so they are the players we should be looking at now. He can go with my blessings, Salah, when he leaves (Liverpool FC).