'There's no doubt Anil Ambani made a deal with Raja'

Subramanian Swamy has impeccable academic credentials – he has taught at Harvard and at IIT, Delhi – but it is when he casts off his academic robes, rolls up his sleeves and launches vigorously into a one-man anti-corruption crusade that he is at his very best. Notionally, he is president of the Janata Party, but that persona counts for little: he has made a far greater impact with the doggedness with which he has pursued the 2G spectrum corruption case, to secure punishment for the accused. He spoke to Firstpost on the case. Excerpts: [caption id=“attachment_7228” align=“alignleft” width=“380” caption=“Janta party president Subramanian Swamy. Photo courtesy ibnlive.com”] [/caption] In an interview to television show host Karan Thapar recently, you said that Anil Ambani and Ratan Tata will see the insides of a jail. How are you so sure? There is public outrage. I am asked by everyone connected with the case if the big people will be arrested. At times, we cannot know the swell of public anger. It happened to the then prime minister Indira Gandhi during the Emergency… There is no doubt that Anil Ambani has … made a deal with (former Telecom Minister) Raja to migrate (from CDMA to GSM) without paying too much. Similarly, Ratan Tata has also committed a fair amount of irregularities. The mood against corruption is unlikely to go away soon… When I said Raja would go to jail, people thought I was making a political statement. Do you think the judiciary is India’s only hope in the battle against corruption? No, I do not think so. The judiciary is responding to the prevailing atmosphere. They strongly believe that this has to stop now. Chief Justice SH Kapadia is strict, and judges today know the public reaction against corruption. The only time the court stops to think through judgements is when there are likely to have far-reaching negative consequences. There is a widespread consensus among the intelligentsia that the people are united in the fight against corruption. What is the long-term solution to corruption? In an earlier book , I argued that there is a mathematical way of dealing with this. If one assumes that every individual is rational, the probability of the person making a choice (to accept) a bribe is less if the probability of being able to get away with it is low. This means a human being will be averse to taking a bribe if it is not worth doing so. It really does not matter how small the probability of ruination is. If that is disproportionate to the bribe, a rational individual will not opt for a bribe. For example, in India (Satyam Computers’ founder) Ramalinga Raju confessed to a crime and was in an air-conditioned hospital room. In the US, Bernard Madoff confessed to a similar wrongdoing and, within six  months, went to jail for 150 years. We saw a similar thing happen in the Enron scandal. In the long run, we need to work to moderate our greed for money. There is a lot of social prestige attached to the money one makes. What are your thoughts on the report of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) in the the 2G scam? The PAC report is an excellent one. It takes into account all dimensions of the situation. If the Congress party had objections, they should have opposed it in March, 2011, when the draft was circulated. Home Minister P. Chidambaram has said he had asked for an auction of 2G spectrum. You’ve said you will seek the Prime Minister’s permission to prosecute him. What did he do - or did not do - that makes you say that? It appears that he covered up well by calling for an auction. However, his next action was to call up Raja and tell him that they were empowered to take a decision on spectrum pricing. The decision to empower the Telecom and Finance Ministers to decide the spectrum price was taken during the NDA government. Prime Minister (Manmohan) Singh agreed in 2006 that the two would take a decision. That was the basis. Can more powers be delegated to industry regulators so that decisions are taken without political interference? For example, if we had had a powerful telecom regulator who reported only to Parliament or a committee of law makers, the 2G scam would not have happened. India needs independent regulators and independent prosecutors. Look at Hong Kong: it is now one of the cleanest places and has independent prosecutors. Will politicians agree to such a step? I do not agree with the sneering at politicians by high-society people. We saw that soon after 26/11 and then during the agitation led by Anna Hazare. Politicians are needed to run the show. We need to create an atmosphere where politics is a desirable activity and try and get good people if one cannot join.